Pauline Glamochak’s Near-Death Experience: A Conversation With Jesus
Interviewed by Karina Machado author of Spirit Sisters
February 8, 2020
When Pauline Glamochak had a near-death experience after a fall at the age of 11, her spirit left her body and rose high up into the air — she even remembers feeling how “freezing cold” the clouds were. “I had this self-awareness that all of the layers of anxiety are gone, everything’s gone, and I’m just my pure self,” recalls Pauline, today a counsellor and artist living in Adelaide, Australia.
Next came “the bliss of the light,” as Pauline describes it. But the otherworldly experience was only beginning for Pauline, who soon found herself face to face with a smiling young man who radiated love she knew to be Jesus. Mesmerized by this being who “looked like a hippie,” as Pauline puts it, she listened, entranced, as he shared his gentle wisdom with her:
“He explained the oneness to me, that everyone was equal in his eyes.”
“It’s about focus — if you look through loving eyes, you can create a beautiful life.”
“He told me plainly that everyone is given life to learn to love — and that includes ourselves.”
There is much, much more, as you’ll hear in the first installment of this special two-part interview with Pauline. I am so thrilled to share this episode with you! Enjoy the show.
Pauline: I found myself back Home in the bliss of The Light… I noticed a figure was coming towards me and soon enough I saw that it was a white robed man and as His features became clearer, I had a realization. Now I have to explain that although my parents were raised in a socialist country where they weren’t religious — they were educated in socialism, really in atheism — they are Christian, they’re Catholic, and freely practiced their religion once we migrated here. Mom always [talked to us] about the angels, but I didn’t really have a connection with Christ. I used to go to church and look at these people praying and think, “Oh geez, I just don’t get it.” I saw Christ as just as a figure… As an 11 year old child, I didn’t really enjoy a relationship with Christ. I saw Him as just the story of our religion. I didn’t have much faith in Christ Himself. I wasn’t really a believer in Christ. So when I saw Him coming towards me, I basically said inside of myself, “Is that who I think it is?” Then I felt this chuckle inside of me and realized then that was how He communicated.
He came close and I could see His features really clearly. He was just a man aglow. He was so beautiful. As soon as I think of Him, I get emotional. I relive that moment of seeing Him and [the way He looked at me] was quite amazing.
I said, “could that be Him?” and he laughed; he imbued His laughter into me and I realized that He could read my mind and I could read His. So that was rather embarrassing. He felt my embarrassment and it was like, “It’s okay, come to Me, My child.” But He didn’t use my name, Pauline. He used another name. And we’ve spoken about [this]… the actual name, because I told you, I think it was a name that started with T.
Karina: Yes. I suggested that it reminded me of one particular scripture, which is about Jesus healing a little girl who was near death or dead. I’d need to look up the name, but it’s like “Talitha kum,” which is Aramaic. So when you said it started with “T,” I said, “Oh, there’s this story.” What did you think of that?
Pauline: I thought that was just amazing. I’m not a Bible reader. So when you told me that it just added another piece to the puzzle. I haven’t found the passage that you spoke of, but that’s extraordinary.
Karina: I’ll send it to you.
Pauline: Oh, thank you. That would be wonderful.
[See below for the illuminating New Testament account that Pauline and Karina are referring to.]
Karina: Before you go on, you mentioned the look that He had for you. What was that?
Pauline: Oh, Karina, it’s just such love. I can’t explain it. You know, as soon as I recall it, I become very, very emotional because it’s just so beautiful. His love is so beautiful, so pure, so non-judgmental. It’s a fullness that we just don’t know on earth. It’s so beautiful. Here we go. Excuse me. You must understand that every time I retell it, I relive it, so in a way, I’m an 11 year old child again, which is rather embarrassing.
Karina: It’s lovely. It’s lovely. And you know, you’re not alone in that so many near-death experiences, no matter if the event happened 10 years ago or 50 years ago, they will respond in the same way you are now as they retell and relive. I’ve heard countless reports and I’ve listened to so many accounts and they, they weep. And that’s one of the things that I think makes the near-death experience such a powerful testament to something extraordinary happening because there is no way to imagine that any sort of hallucination or brain deprived of oxygen moment is going to create an effect that will be this powerful for decades and decades and decades to come and [have] emotional impacts like this.
Pauline: Well, yes, it’s 42 years since it happened to me. So yes, I can’t help but get emotional… But it is a heart opening experience and I feel very blessed with that. I actually feel very blessed that I can feel all of my emotions. So yeah, that aspect of the experience was very beautiful…
Then He hugged me and I felt ashamed; I felt embarrassed that I hadn’t believed in Him. And I just fell at His feet. There are a lot of examples in the Bible of people falling at His feet, not the least of which was a woman who had problems with bleeding during her period…
Karina: In that time, in the first century, in the Jewish religion, that was one of the things that would’ve made a person an outcast.
Pauline: Exactly. Exactly. And wouldn’t you know it, I had a similar experience. I had to go and have a hysterectomy for that reason. At around the age of 40, I had that problem with bleeding, but I didn’t make the connection at the time because I’d compartmentalized the experience.
But anyway, back to the experience: I found myself at His feet and I looked at His foot. It was in a Roman sandal. It was a leather sandal. His foot was beautiful. As I took in even how beautiful His foot was, I moved to look, to take in the whole of His leg, and I saw the light through His foot. And then another realization came over me that the crucifixion was real.
Karina: So you were seeing the light through a wound in His foot?
Pauline: It didn’t look like a wound. It was just a hole in His food and it was quite perfect, as was the rest of Him. So this light shown through and when the realization came over me that the crucifixion was real, He imbued a very short snippet of the experience with the crucifixion to me.
Karina: What was that like?
Pauline: I felt like I was a drop of His blood that fell on the pavement, on the rocky, cobbled street. Or a pearl of sweat. That was what I got. And I said to Him that I felt just how huge the suffering was… Then I asked Him, “Does it still hurt?” And He said to me, “Not anymore.”
Then… I was immediately transported… I was above this crowd of people who were just vitriolic, yelling, and banging. It was like war… I was in the experience and things are just unfolding. I didn’t make the connection that I was at the first station of the cross, which I later researched. That’s where He projected me. I was put next to this woman. I didn’t know who she was, but I felt love emanating from her. She was raised up on this step that was a little higher than the crowd. There were other people with her. She wasn’t alone. It was another platform where people were watching this event take place. I didn’t see the event taking place. My focus was purely on her. She was an older woman. She looked Palestinian. Dark, tanned skin and she had quite a strong nose. She was older, she was much older. She had sort of a brown Hessian scarf, black or blue, indigo. Black tendrils of her hair (it was really black). Her hair fell out of her scarf. She was covering her face and her mouth with her scarf. And she was weeping, but it was like she had to be secretly weeping. And she was trembling. I could feel everything from her. I’ve never experienced such deep sorrow, helplessness, but courage, faith, prayer. So much was going on and so much hurt. I had the ultimate empathy and when I couldn’t stand any more of that, He just brought me back to Him. And as soon as He brought me back, I was in His glory, and His glory was amplified. When I asked Him if it still hurt, He showed me that it still hurt because it hurt His mother’s son. That’s how I interpret it now.
Karina: You’re transporting us all there. Thank you Pauline. It’s almost like watching a historical film or being in the middle of some amazing, you know, document. When you were in the midst of that, did you know who she was?
Karina: So it was only when then you were back with Him that He let you know, He imbued you with the knowledge of who she was?
Pauline: No, He didn’t imbue me with that knowledge. [Or] if He did, my childish mind didn’t retain that. I made the connection that it must have been His mother. He didn’t dwell on that. As soon as I was back with Him, it was all about His glory and how He celebrated that He was able to do this for the world and how the world was saved through that act. So He showed me His sadness and then He showed me His glory amplified. When I was back with Him, He was just so honest. He was such a man, but He was God, you know. It’s so difficult to describe. He obviously did have suffering, but it was like He said: “All of the physical suffering was worth it,” putting it in my 11 year old language. That was what He imparted to me: [that’s what] hurt Him the most, that He hurt His mother so much…
Karina: Pauline, can I ask you — because the listeners will want me to ask you this as well — what did He look like?
Pauline: Awwww, He looked like a hippie. He had long, wavy hair. He wasn’t purfurred, you know, but He was just perfect. He had a strong jaw. He had such warmth in His smile and His eyes. He was just beautiful. He had a strong nose as well, and His lips were beautiful. That’s what I remember. I don’t know why I remember that so much because He didn’t talk with His mouth. I don’t know if I was too shy to look into His eyes, but I remember His lips and they were just so full and beautiful. He was chiseled, you know, He had a chiseled face. He looked Middle Eastern. He didn’t look like any particular race. I know this sounds weird, but He had more of a Mediterranean kind of look to Him. He wasn’t blond.
Karina: He wasn’t blond. What color was His hair and His eyes?
Pauline: It was brown, brown hair. But you know what, to be completely honest, I can’t remember… I’d love to be able to say, you know, I saw flames in His eyes. I probably did look a lot into His eyes, but I just can’t remember the color for whatever reason. It’s not been given to me to remember that.
Karina: And what sort of age did He come across?
Pauline: Yeah, He would have been 33. He was just the most handsome man I’ve ever seen.
Karina: Sorry I interrupted you because I had to ask that burning question.
Pauline: I can just sit here and talk about how gorgeous He was all day because He really was extraordinary. Extraordinarily handsome. So yeah, but that’s not helpful to your listeners.
Karina: I’m sure they’ll be just lapping up every moment of this. So what happened next? You were taken to one of the scenes of the passion as it’s described, and now you’re back with Him. Then what’s next?
Pauline: He explained the oneness to me then; that everybody was equal in His eyes and that He died for the whole world; that it wasn’t just for Catholics, or Christians. He really imbued that understanding in me.
Then He asked me to come and sit with Him on a rock… Now I had a body, whereas before, when He projected me, I didn’t have a body. So I was sitting on this rock and dangling my legs over this ledge. Below us, He let me take in this beautiful galaxy, a nebula. It was just like the Aurora Borealis. It was so colorful. I was so thrilled to find the NASA impressions of galaxies. I’ve actually researched that. I think it was Orion because it wasn’t round like Andromeda. I think it was the Orion Nebula. It was just stunning. He just let me sit there and take it all in.
Then I turned around to Him and He said, “Look here my child.” You can sense what He wants you to do and you just want to please Him. So He said, “Look here my child,” and He swept His right arm in front of us and suddenly His arm was larger than it was before. And in the traces of His arm, like the energy that was left behind, a book materialized; it formed and it was a large book. It was tilted towards us as though it was on a bookstand, but it was just elevated in space. I looked into the book and it was like a flickering movie, a flickering film; like the old fashioned motion pictures.
I remember there was something written in the front, but I can’t remember now what was on the first page. So we open the first page and then the movie unfolded. It was the story of these people. And they were beautiful. Everybody in this story was just so beautiful. I looked in and I just became immersed in this story, but I didn’t recognize at all that it was my story until I transgressed against a friend and I really hurt her… this friend of mine, who I later took to be my confirmation godmother, when I saw the pain that I’d caused her, the penny dropped: “Oh, this is my life story!” I turned around to Him and I said, “but, but, but, but, you know, she’d hurt me and it was sort of tit for tat or whatever.” And He didn’t say anything. He didn’t condemn me, but I felt condemned within myself. I felt, I knew that I’d done the wrong thing. So I said to Him, “What’s life about anyway? I just don’t get it. I don’t know how to live… How do I live?” And He answered immediately with “Life is about love… to love is what life is about.” And I said, “I don’t understand because nobody lives that; YOU don’t understand because nobody lives like that on earth.” And He just smiled at me with this big understanding smile, but also a little bit like a child.
Now that I look back on it, it’s like an 11 year old child telling Jesus “you don’t understand.” He just showed me that He reigns over the galaxies and He just smiled at me when I said that. Then He said, “Well, how do you live? How do you do this life?” He didn’t make me look back and move further. I didn’t want to look back because I knew that beyond that mistake, I’ve made many, I’d hurt people many times after that. I didn’t want to know any more of the hurt that I caused. He said to me, “How do you live? It’s about focus. If you look through loving eyes and if you focus, you can create a beautiful life.”
This all sounded fantastic, and I did believe Him to an extent, but there was still some reservation in me. At the same time, He let me know — I sort of knew by Him giving me this information and showing me my life review — that I would be going back and I wouldn’t be staying. So He talked to me about focus and how important that was. It’s only now, of course, after becoming educated and going through all that I went through, that I understand that we can choose our thoughts, that we can choose our emotions, that we create our life by what we focus on. At age 11, I didn’t understand the truth in that at all.
Karina: As part of this life review experience that is manifesting as this book of your life, did you only see this one incident? Is that what He chose to focus on or did you see more of a broader look at your life?
Pauline: No. I didn’t realize it was our family. He was showing me how He sees us. So I was looking at everything; I was seeing everybody through His eyes and we were so much more beautiful than we see one another, more beautiful than we see ourselves. [What I was seeing] wasn’t recognizable to me because I had cast, we had cast, such aspersions upon one another and upon ourselves.
Karina: So He was talking to you about focus, but not only that, He was actually showing you His focus.
Pauline: Absolutely. Absolutely, Karina. You’ve got it. You’ve got it. It’s not just about the fact that I transgressed… because you know, my parents were adults then, they had made transgressions up to that point, but He didn’t show me anyone’s transgressions. He showed everyone as perfect and beautiful. Really extraordinarily, fluorescently beautiful. It was the beauty. I thought I was watching some kind of amazing Hollywood production.
Karina: When did it dawn on you that these were your people, your family?
Pauline: When I felt the hurt that I had caused Lydia, my friend. Then everything clicked; everything dawned on me at that point. I didn’t suddenly look ugly or anything, but I could feel her emotion. I don’t know why He showed me that point. Perhaps up until that point — I think I was around six or so when that happened — I was very young, so up until that point I probably hadn’t really hurt anybody to that significant an extent… [He] certainly didn’t make me feel debilitating guilt or anything like that.
Karina: I guess in your young life, this was probably the most helpful example to use for a girl who was only 11.
Pauline: Yes. Yes. And it was important for me to develop empathy because I now see that if I… had isolated myself from people who had hurt me, then goodness knows what kind of life I would have. You know, I really am blessed, in many ways, for everybody in my life. I’m absolutely blessed, completely blessed. So for all of the hurt and for everything, I’m really glad that He showed me empathy to this degree. And He told me plainly that everyone is given life to learn to love. And that includes ourselves.
Karina: We have to learn to love ourselves?
Pauline: Oh yes.
Karina: So that was part of the message as well? Self love?
Pauline: There were so many things that were communicated without words and without Him telling me, but by showing — showing how He looks at us is how we should also consider ourselves. Who are we to denigrate His creation? Who are we to denigrate ourselves if God sees us as beautiful and perfect. Of course, in strength-based or positive psychology we learned that’s the only way that things change. We don’t create with negativity. We destroy with negativity. We only create change with saying yes and leaning in and focusing on the strengths and the beauty in the situation. It correlates a lot with the kind of evolving psychology that we’re seeing today.
Karina: What happened next?
Pauline: So He’s telling me about focusing. Now this is where… it’s difficult for Christians to grasp because they believe that this is a bit New Agey… I do believe that a lot of people channel [Jesus]. We’ve mentioned A Course In Miracles. A lot of wisdom teachers channel His wisdom. These are not things that come from us, these are things that come from God, given through people who are so devoted to their spiritual connection with God that they facilitate Him speaking through them. That’s my understanding. He told me about focus and that I could actually create my life by choosing [what I] thought. It didn’t really make sense to me. Because it didn’t make sense to me, I pleaded with Him to stay: “Please, I don’t want to be parted from your love. Now that I know Your love, there’s no love like Yours on earth.”
He said to me, “You will not be parted from My love. You can reach out to Me whenever you need My love.”
Of course, when I came back into my earthly self the truth of that completely disappeared for a long time — too long — until He reached out to me.
He then convinced me that I needed to go back. He didn’t tell me. He wanted me to choose to go back. He convinced me by showing me two scenes that I remember very strongly…
He showed me a young man who smiled at me with such loving eyes that I knew that I would have love on earth that was huge and unconditional and the kind of love that I really wanted. And being 11, I thought to myself that it was my future husband; this was my future partner. It was only later that I realized when my son was in his twenties — because He showed me this picture of a young man smiling at me very lovingly — I was in the kitchen with my son and he was helping me with something and he just looked at me and said something, “blah, blah, blah, mom.” And I just looked up at him. He was looking at me so lovingly and I realized that it was him and I hugged him… And I thought, “Oh my goodness, it was my son all along!” So that was mind blowing.
He also showed me a scene from behind me where I think it was me… I was on this stage and I was talking to a very large crowd of people and it was a blue backdrop. There was a lot of light… and I thought, “Wow, do You want me to tell people about this because they don’t know what You’re like and they don’t know that life is about love?” And He laughed at me. I wonder whether He laughed because He knew it would take me 42 years and that it wouldn’t be as easy as I thought it would be. He said, “Yes, I do.” So I think there were three times that He laughed. And His laugh is not condescending. It was a joy to amuse Him, to be amusing to Him. He’s got a great sense of humor.
Karina: I’ve heard that before in other accounts as well, that the sense of humor of The Divine comes through these NDE accounts. And it’s very beautiful.
Pauline: Yes. So, He showed me this and I thought, “Wow, this is amazing. This is a wonderful life.” And He said, “Yes it is.”
And with that, because in my heart I had agreed, and because I didn’t want to miss out on this love, and because I didn’t want to miss out on the experience of my life… my consciousness was projected back into my body.
The episode of the daughter of Jairus is a combination of miracles of Jesus in the Gospels (Mark 5:21–43, Matthew 9:18–26 and Luke 8:40–56)
The story immediately follows the exorcism at Gerasa. Jairus, a patron or ruler of a Galilee synagogue, had asked Jesus to heal His 12-year-old daughter.
As they were traveling to Jairus’ house, a sick woman in the crowd touched Jesus’ cloak and was healed of her sickness. Jesus turned round to the woman and said “Daughter, your faith has made you well. Go in peace.” (see Luke 8:43-48) (Christ healing the bleeding woman). In Mark’s and Luke’s version, a messenger arrived with the news that Jairus’ daughter had died, and he was advised not to trouble Jesus any further. However, Jesus responded: “Be not afraid, only believe.” — Mark 5:36
Jesus continued to the house, where Jesus “saw a commotion, people weeping and wailing loudly” (Mark 5:38). He informed all those present that the girl was not dead but asleep. He then went upstairs and restored the little girl to life. In Mark’s account, the Aramaic phrase “Talitha kum” (meaning, “Little girl, I say to you, get up!”) is attributed to Jesus.
The combined stories have been used as an example of intercalation, where one incident is inserted within another, linked in this case by the connection between the 12-year ailment and the 12-year-old girl.
Listen To Part Two (MP3) Machine Generated Rough Transcript (Word)